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The Requirements to Live in Portugal 8 months a year during Residency Visa

Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2023 6:56pm
27 replies244 views5 members subscribed
cconrad1234

Posts: 16

5 helpful points

Joined: 10 Nov 2022

Do any of you find the restriction to live in Portugal for 8 out of 12 months difficult? There are some that suggest you can still go anywhere in the Schengen area because there are no borders, but that still sounds like a risk. It would be horrible to get rejected when renewing your Visa because you were out of the country too much.  When you went for renewal at Two years, did they check anything?  How would they know that you stayed in Portugal? Is it counted as days? It sems somewhat confusing to me how they calculate it. If anyone has a link to the actual rule or law, I would really like to see it.

cconrad1234

Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2023 8:19pm

cconrad1234

Original Poster

Posts: 16

5 helpful points

Joined: 10 Nov 2022

Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2023 8:19pm

cconrad1234 wrote on Tue Mar 14, 2023 6:56pm:

Do any of you find the restriction to live in Portugal for 8 out of 12 months difficult? There are some that suggest you can still go anywhere in the Schengen area because there are no borders, but that still sounds like a risk. It would be horrible to get rejected when renewing your Visa because...

... you were out of the country too much.  When you went for renewal at Two years, did they check anything?  How would they know that you stayed in Portugal? Is it counted as days? It sems somewhat confusing to me how they calculate it. If anyone has a link to the actual rule or law, I would really like to see it.

Actually, it looks like it is 8 months in Portugal out of 60 (or 1 month every 7.5 months) according to the SEF site:

  • The holder of a temporary Residence Permit who intends to be absent from Portugal, during the validity period, for a timeframe exceeding six consecutive months or eight unsequential months has a duty to inform SEF before leaving national territory
8 Un-sequential months over 5 years (or 60 months) = 1 month out of Portugal every 7.5 months. Or do they mean 8 un sequential months out of 12? This is just not at all clear what the requirements are (at least to me).

cconrad1234

Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2023 8:55pm

cconrad1234

Original Poster

Posts: 16

5 helpful points

Joined: 10 Nov 2022

Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2023 8:55pm

cconrad1234 wrote on Tue Mar 14, 2023 8:19pm:

Actually, it looks like it is 8 months in Portugal out of 60 (or 1 month every 7.5 months) according to the SEF site:

The holder of a temporary Residence Permit who intends to be absent from Portugal, during the validity period, for a timeframe exceeding six consecutive months or eight unsequential months has a duty to inform SEF before leaving national territory8 Un-sequential months over 5 years (or 60 months)...

... = 1 month out of Portugal every 7.5 months. Or do they mean 8 un sequential months out of 12? This is just not at all clear what the requirements are (at least to me).

From SEF Website: "The holder of a temporary Residence Permit who intends to be absent from Portugal, during the validity period, for a timeframe exceeding six consecutive months or eight unsequential months has a duty to inform SEF before leaving national territory"


When they say "during the validity period" do they mean the five years, or just the 2-Year Temporary Permit? 

If it means the full five years, we are only allowed to be out of the country 8 of the 60 months (5 Years).  If it means each individual permit, the 2-year temporary permit allows 8 months out of the 24 months, and then 8 months of the 2nd 36-month temporary permit.

Do we need to track this by counting days? For example If we leave to go to Spain for three weeks, does it count at all because it is less than a month? Or do we need to track the days we are gone? If we are tracking the days, then how many days count as a month? 30 or 31? 

When they say "national territory" do they mean just the country of Portugal? 

I have too many questions....
Oleander

Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2023 9:50am

Posts: 2

Location: Quarteira

Joined: 10 Mar 2022

Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2023 9:50am

cconrad1234 wrote on Tue Mar 14, 2023 8:19pm:

Actually, it looks like it is 8 months in Portugal out of 60 (or 1 month every 7.5 months) according to the SEF site:

The holder of a temporary Residence Permit who intends to be absent from Portugal, during the validity period, for a timeframe exceeding six consecutive months or eight unsequential months has a duty to inform SEF before leaving national territory8 Un-sequential months over 5 years (or 60 months)...

... = 1 month out of Portugal every 7.5 months. Or do they mean 8 un sequential months out of 12? This is just not at all clear what the requirements are (at least to me).

My take is this:

From SEF Website: "The holder of a temporary Residence Permit who intends to be absent from Portugal, during the validity period, for a timeframe exceeding six consecutive months or eight unsequential months has a duty to inform SEF before leaving national territory"

It doesn't say anything about only being "allowed" to be out of the country for this period, during the lifetime of your permit, just that you have to "inform" SEF. 

The key word is "inform".

So, if you knew you were going away for more than six months you would inform SEF. If you had a series of small trips which added up to more eight months in total you would inform SEF.

For context, as a owner of holiday accommodation there is a requirement to inform SEF when overseas visitors arrive and when they leave. These are UK guests, there's no suggestion of how many times they can visit, just that there is a legal requirement to inform SEF which is strictly enforced with fines for non-compliance.

Hope this helps.

aspidistra

Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2023 10:42am

Posts: 79

14 helpful points

Location: Silves

Joined: 8 Aug 2021

Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2023 10:42am

This is a topic I have mulled on a great deal. It seems to me that there is no way for PT to know if you cross land borders within Europe, so, take, say, a month in Spain. If you got stopped on the way back in to Pt, could one just say one was there for a day/weekend? Making sure one has some days left within the allowance in case of such a thing.

I know if I go for the visa I would want to be able to go to other parts of Europe, but keep my allowed months out for UK visits which will register on their system. 


The other thing I wondered about with travelling sneakily in Europe is travel insurance. Would my insurance be valid? I would have some personal insurance but in an emergency would it be UK or PT agreements with that country that counts?

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cconrad1234

Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2023 11:58am

cconrad1234

Original Poster

Posts: 16

5 helpful points

Joined: 10 Nov 2022

Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2023 11:58am

The thing is, we don’t know their technology to track us. If they have access to bank records or credit cards they would know. If they have access to passport scanning, which is used by hotels then they might know. They put the rules in place, so I imagine they have some way to ascertain the time spent outside of their he country. 

Without knowing the facts, we only have guessing. I would hate to have my resident visa extension denied. Has anyone had trouble by being out of the country too long?

aspidistra

Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2023 12:52pm

Posts: 79

14 helpful points

Location: Silves

Joined: 8 Aug 2021

Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2023 12:52pm

National territory includes Madeira and I assume the Azores, as far as I am aware.

sailorpete

Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2023 11:43pm

Posts: 11

4 helpful points

Joined: 7 Apr 2019

Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2023 11:43pm

The way around the “8 months” rule is to apply for Non-Habitual Resident Status. Then the rule does not apply, but you will have to file annual tax returns with the Portuguese govt. 

cconrad1234

Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2023 1:50am

cconrad1234

Original Poster

Posts: 16

5 helpful points

Joined: 10 Nov 2022

Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2023 1:50am

sailorpete wrote on Sun Jul 30, 2023 11:43pm:

The way around the “8 months” rule is to apply for Non-Habitual Resident Status. Then the rule does not apply, but you will have to file annual tax returns with the Portuguese govt. 

Thank you very much for your reply, you are saying the rule to be in Portugal under a D7 is waived if you apply for the non habitual tax scheme? Do you have a reference for this?  I have not heard of this. 

sailorpete

Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2023 3:55am

Posts: 11

4 helpful points

Joined: 7 Apr 2019

Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2023 3:55am

cconrad1234 wrote on Mon Jul 31, 2023 1:50am:

Thank you very much for your reply, you are saying the rule to be in Portugal under a D7 is waived if you apply for the non habitual tax scheme? Do you have a reference for this?  I have not heard of this. 

Here is a useful link that will edify my comment. https://www.portugal.com/moving-to-portugal/guide-to-the-non-habitual-resident-nhr-tax-regime/

I hope this helps to clear up the confusion.

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