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Retirement - Page 2

Neil

Posted: Thu Feb 4, 2021 10:13am

Neil

Original Poster

Posts: 11

1 helpful points

Location: Albufeira

Joined: 29 Jan 2021

Posted: Thu Feb 4, 2021 10:13am

Alistair young wrote on Wed Feb 3, 2021 5:48pm:

Thanks for your reply and it's good to find someone with knowledge of the area 

Hi,

Thank you for responding. Probably a two bedroom apartment in good condition would most suitable, and near the beach if possible. A large friendly ex pat community would be a bonus as I don't speak the lingo - Yet?  I've done my fair share of doing up properties when I was younger, so I'd rather take it easy now. Also, it would probably be better hiring a car than buying, but either way I would need a garage or parking space nearby. Anyway, it's early days, I will get a better idea when I'm over there and have got to know a few people who can point me in the right direction. 

When we are permitted to travel again, I will be over for about a month initially. Any advice would be welcome, on whether I should book a holiday package, rent an apartment or, a family guest house with English speakers - If I can find one?

Keep well!

Neil.

Alistair young

Posted: Thu Feb 4, 2021 12:26pm

Posts: 3

Location: Alcantarilha

Joined: 15 Feb 2020

Posted: Thu Feb 4, 2021 12:26pm

tsmith2456 wrote on Wed Feb 3, 2021 2:27pm:

I live 20 minutes north of Loule, just outside a small town called Salir. I would say Loule is not touristy, it is almost exclusively inhabited by permanent residents. It is a large (for the Algarve) town, being the county town for the municipality. I travel to it weekly for the supermarkets and ...

...other shops and services. There are many events organised by the local council, mainly for the benefit of residents, but some of them do attract tourists during the summer months. I would agree housing in Loule is mostly apartments. Loule is about 15-20 minutes from the nearest "tourist centre" in Albufeira.

If you want something cheaper and more rural take a look at the area around Salir, Querenca and Alte. I live in this area and it is fabulous, in my obviously totally unbiased opinion :-), there are plenty of cheaper properties, especially if you want to refurbish something. The countryside around this area I describe to my friends as like Devon on steroids, rolling green hills and valleys peppered with quiet roads and off-road tracks. Perfect for walking and cycling, if that's your bag. Further north from here it gets quieter and cheaper but remains very attractive and still within reach of the coast for a day out.

As I have mentioned to others on this forum it is worth spending a week or so investigating the length of the Algarve to choose a general area then spending another week investigating that smaller area more thoroughly. I would also advise renting to begin with before committing to a purchase.

I hope that's helpful.

Sorry i think i used the wrong word "touristy" but i only have things on the internet to look at mostly property sites and they give little away as far as what the area is like. I looked again at salir on a YouTube video and it looks very nice old town. Then looked again at property for sale in that area and outside and still didn't come up with much that suited my critiria maybe I'm too late to find attractive doer upers in the countryside most seemed either glitzy villas, land for sale or apparments. I'm not looking for seaside property preferring a place on its own in the countryside but nothing i looked at i could afford or the property was just too far gone.

tsmith2456

Posted: Thu Feb 4, 2021 12:47pm

Posts: 14

2 helpful points

Location: Salir

Joined: 26 Nov 2020

Posted: Thu Feb 4, 2021 12:47pm

Alistair young wrote on Thu Feb 4, 2021 12:26pm:

Sorry i think i used the wrong word "touristy" but i only have things on the internet to look at mostly property sites and they give little away as far as what the area is like. I looked again at salir on a YouTube video and it looks very nice old town. Then looked again at property for sale in t...

...hat area and outside and still didn't come up with much that suited my critiria maybe I'm too late to find attractive doer upers in the countryside most seemed either glitzy villas, land for sale or apparments. I'm not looking for seaside property preferring a place on its own in the countryside but nothing i looked at i could afford or the property was just too far gone.

If I see anything when I'm out and about I'll take some photos and message you.

Neil

Posted: Thu Feb 4, 2021 1:13pm

Neil

Original Poster

Posts: 11

1 helpful points

Location: Albufeira

Joined: 29 Jan 2021

Posted: Thu Feb 4, 2021 1:13pm

tsmith2456 wrote on Thu Feb 4, 2021 12:47pm:

If I see anything when I'm out and about I'll take some photos and message you.

Thank you that would be helpful. 

Ian28

Posted: Fri Feb 5, 2021 10:00am

Posts: 40

11 helpful points

Location: Salir

Joined: 20 Nov 2020

Posted: Fri Feb 5, 2021 10:00am

Hi Neil,

I have just been through the purchase process and like Tony, I ended up buying in Salir.  This area of the Algarve seemed the best value for money, for what I was looking for. (20-40 minutes from Faro, 20-40 minutes from beach, close to healthcare - but not in a city, with land to grow some food for myself).

I have been visiting Portugal since my adventurous parents took me there at the age of 5 (I am now 62).  I had many vacations around Quarteira area with my children.

Over the last 2 years I have been regularly short term renting in Olhao and Moncarapacho to practice living there and cooking for myself.

Each recent visit I have had a short list of properties to view and dedicated 1 full day to visit 5 or 6 properties of interest.

I searched a large area from Tavira - Almancil - Sao Bartolomeu de Messines - Odeleite before concentrating on the Salir-Alte area.

One thing I set up early in my time 'actually looking' for a property was a Solicitor (in my case Veronica Pisco, but there are many). She and her team did a lot of the harder work for me.  Nuno (who works for Veronica) would organise the visits with the estate agents in a logical order and accompany me to all the properties, with advice on what can and can not be done to each property. The girls in the office would check out the documentation for the property to see all is build and registered legally. ( I found several properties with illegal roof extensions, which would become your problem if purchased).

Before you start seriously looking for a house to buy - you need to get a NIF (Portuguese tax number) and probably a bank account and registered as a non resident.  All these I completed with the help of Veronica and her team.

There seems to be 4 basic property types to choose from :-

An apartment (could be inside a community with pools etc or a block in town)

A completed house (new build or refurbished by others)

A house to refurbish yourself (could be a ruin or just recently abandoned by family)

A plot of land where there has been a home, but it is just a pile of stones now.

!! There are lots of nice plots of 'agricultural' land for sale - you CAN NOT convert these to build a house !!  Stay clear of these.

Having looked at all of the above, from 1 bed apartments to small farms with 20,000m2 land.  I ended up with a 600m2 plot with a house that needs refurbishment and a set of outbuildings that can be converted to living space for visitors, at some point in the future.

There are several 'All Portugal' property sites, but you need to have some idea of where you want to live and how much you want to spend before you start looking.

A reasonable 1-2,000m2 plot of land with permission to build can be anything from ~50,000 Euro ( check for electricity, water and sewage ).

There are many rules on what you can and cannot build, many plots in the country you can expand by 300m2 - but many houses in a town/village you can not expand by even 1m2.  The buildings and land are designated for what can be done to it (covered land can be used for housing, not covered land can be used for patio etc, the garden can also have different designations depending on size and location, 

The house I have purchased (in December 2020), I am very limited on extending the house and I have to keep the front of the house 'as it is now'. I can paint it any colour I like, replace the windows - but I can not change the size or position of the windows nor add anything that changes the look of the front of the building. 

I spent 2 weeks in January at the property, changing locks, setting up electricity and water contracts and connecting to tv and Internet.  Unfortunately I had to get out quickly as the latest corona spike started shutting down my options to return to NL.

I will be back in Salir as soon as things open up again and start organising builders to work on the inside of my home.

My situation is a little more complicated as am a UK citizen, I have lived and worked in the Netherlands for over 20 years. So I will be retiring from the Netherlands to Portugal. 

I hope these things help.

Good luck getting things started with your search.

Ian

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Neil

Posted: Fri Feb 5, 2021 10:35am

Neil

Original Poster

Posts: 11

1 helpful points

Location: Albufeira

Joined: 29 Jan 2021

Posted: Fri Feb 5, 2021 10:35am

Ian28 wrote on Fri Feb 5, 2021 10:00am:

Hi Neil,

I have just been through the purchase process and like Tony, I ended up buying in Salir.  This area of the Algarve seemed the best value for money, for what I was looking for. (20-40 minutes from Faro, 20-40 minutes from beach, close to healthcare - but not in a city, with land to grow some ...

...food for myself).

I have been visiting Portugal since my adventurous parents took me there at the age of 5 (I am now 62).  I had many vacations around Quarteira area with my children.

Over the last 2 years I have been regularly short term renting in Olhao and Moncarapacho to practice living there and cooking for myself.

Each recent visit I have had a short list of properties to view and dedicated 1 full day to visit 5 or 6 properties of interest.

I searched a large area from Tavira - Almancil - Sao Bartolomeu de Messines - Odeleite before concentrating on the Salir-Alte area.

One thing I set up early in my time 'actually looking' for a property was a Solicitor (in my case Veronica Pisco, but there are many). She and her team did a lot of the harder work for me.  Nuno (who works for Veronica) would organise the visits with the estate agents in a logical order and accompany me to all the properties, with advice on what can and can not be done to each property. The girls in the office would check out the documentation for the property to see all is build and registered legally. ( I found several properties with illegal roof extensions, which would become your problem if purchased).

Before you start seriously looking for a house to buy - you need to get a NIF (Portuguese tax number) and probably a bank account and registered as a non resident.  All these I completed with the help of Veronica and her team.

There seems to be 4 basic property types to choose from :-

An apartment (could be inside a community with pools etc or a block in town)

A completed house (new build or refurbished by others)

A house to refurbish yourself (could be a ruin or just recently abandoned by family)

A plot of land where there has been a home, but it is just a pile of stones now.

!! There are lots of nice plots of 'agricultural' land for sale - you CAN NOT convert these to build a house !!  Stay clear of these.

Having looked at all of the above, from 1 bed apartments to small farms with 20,000m2 land.  I ended up with a 600m2 plot with a house that needs refurbishment and a set of outbuildings that can be converted to living space for visitors, at some point in the future.

There are several 'All Portugal' property sites, but you need to have some idea of where you want to live and how much you want to spend before you start looking.

A reasonable 1-2,000m2 plot of land with permission to build can be anything from ~50,000 Euro ( check for electricity, water and sewage ).

There are many rules on what you can and cannot build, many plots in the country you can expand by 300m2 - but many houses in a town/village you can not expand by even 1m2.  The buildings and land are designated for what can be done to it (covered land can be used for housing, not covered land can be used for patio etc, the garden can also have different designations depending on size and location, 

The house I have purchased (in December 2020), I am very limited on extending the house and I have to keep the front of the house 'as it is now'. I can paint it any colour I like, replace the windows - but I can not change the size or position of the windows nor add anything that changes the look of the front of the building. 

I spent 2 weeks in January at the property, changing locks, setting up electricity and water contracts and connecting to tv and Internet.  Unfortunately I had to get out quickly as the latest corona spike started shutting down my options to return to NL.

I will be back in Salir as soon as things open up again and start organising builders to work on the inside of my home.

My situation is a little more complicated as am a UK citizen, I have lived and worked in the Netherlands for over 20 years. So I will be retiring from the Netherlands to Portugal. 

I hope these things help.

Good luck getting things started with your search.

Ian

Thank you so much for all that information Ian. I have copied it to keep as a reference.

I am still at the very early stages, and will have to wait until I can get back to Portugal before I can start my search in earnest.

To get things going, is it possible to get a NIF and open a bank account from the UK?  Perhaps you might be able to let me have the contact details for Veronica Pisco, as I would rather use a trusted solicitor than one out of the phone book.

I shall start looking around the areas you have suggested on street view.

P.S.  Could you tell me if Veronica speaks English, in what town is she situated and what the initial cost might be to get her to arrange a NIF and a bank account for me?

Thanks' again for your help.

Kindest regards,

Neil.

Jazz

Posted: Fri Feb 5, 2021 11:42am

Posts: 133

14 helpful points

Location: Lagos

Joined: 29 Sep 2020

Posted: Fri Feb 5, 2021 11:42am

Ian28 wrote on Fri Feb 5, 2021 10:00am:

Hi Neil,

I have just been through the purchase process and like Tony, I ended up buying in Salir.  This area of the Algarve seemed the best value for money, for what I was looking for. (20-40 minutes from Faro, 20-40 minutes from beach, close to healthcare - but not in a city, with land to grow some ...

...food for myself).

I have been visiting Portugal since my adventurous parents took me there at the age of 5 (I am now 62).  I had many vacations around Quarteira area with my children.

Over the last 2 years I have been regularly short term renting in Olhao and Moncarapacho to practice living there and cooking for myself.

Each recent visit I have had a short list of properties to view and dedicated 1 full day to visit 5 or 6 properties of interest.

I searched a large area from Tavira - Almancil - Sao Bartolomeu de Messines - Odeleite before concentrating on the Salir-Alte area.

One thing I set up early in my time 'actually looking' for a property was a Solicitor (in my case Veronica Pisco, but there are many). She and her team did a lot of the harder work for me.  Nuno (who works for Veronica) would organise the visits with the estate agents in a logical order and accompany me to all the properties, with advice on what can and can not be done to each property. The girls in the office would check out the documentation for the property to see all is build and registered legally. ( I found several properties with illegal roof extensions, which would become your problem if purchased).

Before you start seriously looking for a house to buy - you need to get a NIF (Portuguese tax number) and probably a bank account and registered as a non resident.  All these I completed with the help of Veronica and her team.

There seems to be 4 basic property types to choose from :-

An apartment (could be inside a community with pools etc or a block in town)

A completed house (new build or refurbished by others)

A house to refurbish yourself (could be a ruin or just recently abandoned by family)

A plot of land where there has been a home, but it is just a pile of stones now.

!! There are lots of nice plots of 'agricultural' land for sale - you CAN NOT convert these to build a house !!  Stay clear of these.

Having looked at all of the above, from 1 bed apartments to small farms with 20,000m2 land.  I ended up with a 600m2 plot with a house that needs refurbishment and a set of outbuildings that can be converted to living space for visitors, at some point in the future.

There are several 'All Portugal' property sites, but you need to have some idea of where you want to live and how much you want to spend before you start looking.

A reasonable 1-2,000m2 plot of land with permission to build can be anything from ~50,000 Euro ( check for electricity, water and sewage ).

There are many rules on what you can and cannot build, many plots in the country you can expand by 300m2 - but many houses in a town/village you can not expand by even 1m2.  The buildings and land are designated for what can be done to it (covered land can be used for housing, not covered land can be used for patio etc, the garden can also have different designations depending on size and location, 

The house I have purchased (in December 2020), I am very limited on extending the house and I have to keep the front of the house 'as it is now'. I can paint it any colour I like, replace the windows - but I can not change the size or position of the windows nor add anything that changes the look of the front of the building. 

I spent 2 weeks in January at the property, changing locks, setting up electricity and water contracts and connecting to tv and Internet.  Unfortunately I had to get out quickly as the latest corona spike started shutting down my options to return to NL.

I will be back in Salir as soon as things open up again and start organising builders to work on the inside of my home.

My situation is a little more complicated as am a UK citizen, I have lived and worked in the Netherlands for over 20 years. So I will be retiring from the Netherlands to Portugal. 

I hope these things help.

Good luck getting things started with your search.

Ian

Compliments, Ian, on your logical, analytical mind and presentation. It would, no doubt, be very helpful to prospective foreign Portuguese residents.

One question immediately occurs to me, having moved house about 8 times during my life in my home country (Ireland). When sussing out a property in which you might be interested, is there a degree of "horse-trading" in the negotiating process with the seller/vendor before coming to an agreed price.

Another, of course, would be the post-purchase scenario and Portuguese estate taxes on death of a foreign Portuguese owner.

Compliments again,

Jazz

Ian28

Posted: Fri Feb 5, 2021 11:46am

Posts: 40

11 helpful points

Location: Salir

Joined: 20 Nov 2020

Posted: Fri Feb 5, 2021 11:46am

Neil wrote on Fri Feb 5, 2021 10:35am:

Thank you so much for all that information Ian. I have copied it to keep as a reference.

I am still at the very early stages, and will have to wait until I can get back to Portugal before I can start my search in earnest.

To get things going, is it possible to get a NIF and open a bank account from the UK?  Perhaps you might be able to let me have the contact details for Veronica Pisco, as I would rather use a trusted solicitor than one out of the phone book.

I shall start looking around the areas you have suggested on street view.

P.S.  Could you tell me if Veronica speaks English, in what town is she situated and what the initial cost might be to get her to arrange a NIF and a bank account for me?

Thanks' again for your help.

Kindest regards,

Neil.

Hi Neil,

Here is the email for Veronica's office.  [email protected]

The whole team speak very good English, there are 2 offices, the main one is by Almancil (~20 minutes drive from Salir) and another in Tavira.

All the documents I needed to sign for Veronica's work came with both Portuguese and English next to each other in 2 columns, so there were no 'what exactly am I signing here' moments. Most of the documents that needed signing and only in Portuguese were explained in English (if needed) by the team (e.g. water contract with Loule council).

You first need your NIF - as it is needed to open the bank account.

I set Veronica up with Power of Attorney for the NIF and also for the signing of my house purchase documents.

The bank account was organised by Veronica's office at the Millennium Bank in Almancil (5 minute drive from the office), but I had to go in person with my passport to sign up. [ I also had to sign up for a bank card, which takes about 5 days to arrive at the branch - and after some phone calls to and from the Helpdesk in Portugal - I can do all my business from an App on my phone or on the computer via their website ]

Other banks are also available - but I am very happy with this one :-)

Costs:-

I would contact Veronica's office for a good quote for your requirements, but expect to pay around 500 Euro for Veronica's work plus some costs between 15 - 300 Euro for the various agencies that are involved.

I can not split it down further as I also had Veronica set me up as a non tax resident in PT - with her office as my registered address.

They also have some complete packages you can sign up for to cover all you need to get to the eventual house purchase.(which is what I went for)

Feel free to mention my name when you contact them.

Also feel free to get back to me if you need any more info or I have missed anything.

Ian

Ian28

Posted: Fri Feb 5, 2021 12:13pm

Posts: 40

11 helpful points

Location: Salir

Joined: 20 Nov 2020

Posted: Fri Feb 5, 2021 12:13pm

Jazz wrote on Fri Feb 5, 2021 11:42am:

Compliments, Ian, on your logical, analytical mind and presentation. It would, no doubt, be very helpful to prospective foreign Portuguese residents.

One question immediately occurs to me, having moved house about 8 times during my life in my home country (Ireland). When sussing out a property in which you might be interested, is there a degree of "horse-trading" in the negotiating process with the seller/vendor before coming to an agreed pric...

...e.

Another, of course, would be the post-purchase scenario and Portuguese estate taxes on death of a foreign Portuguese owner.

Compliments again,

Jazz

Hi Jazz,

There are many similarities to the UK and NL (where I live) purchase processes, so negotiation is mostly possible but not always successful.

I found the majority of properties I was interested in were where a family were selling their parents old home.  In these cases you needed the agreement of many people if you wanted to put in a lower offer. 7 siblings was the most I came across and could not get them all to agree on a lower price (which is offered via the broker not by you to each).

The house I eventually bought, was being sold by 2 brothers and I got a reduction of 6,000 on a property up for 170,000 before the survey, but no more reduction after some minor issues were found in the survey.  I went ahead anyway knowing there were extra repairs needed.

The process:-

You put in an initial verbal offer and if accepted you organise a surveyor to check the building out, and get a lawyer's office to check out the paperwork at the town hall.

You can try to adjust your offer after a bad survey - but I found this was not accepted if the property has interest from other people.

Then you make a legally binding offer via your lawyer and detail the dates for purchase.

You are required to deposit 10% of the price, which you lose if you pull out.

You need to make the full funds available to the notary a few days before the purchase date.

I gave my lawyer Power of Attorney for the process as Covid travel restrictions were in place preventing me from easily going to the various document signings.

I hope this helps

Ian

Jazz

Posted: Fri Feb 5, 2021 12:38pm

Posts: 133

14 helpful points

Location: Lagos

Joined: 29 Sep 2020

Posted: Fri Feb 5, 2021 12:38pm

Ian28 wrote on Fri Feb 5, 2021 12:13pm:

Hi Jazz,

There are many similarities to the UK and NL (where I live) purchase processes, so negotiation is mostly possible but not always successful.

I found the majority of properties I was interested in were where a family were selling their parents old home.  In these cases you needed the agreement of many people if you wanted to put in a lower offer. 7 siblings was the most I came across and could not get them all to agree on a lower price (which is offered via the broker not by you to each).

The house I eventually bought, was being sold by 2 brothers and I got a reduction of 6,000 on a property up for 170,000 before the survey, but no more reduction after some minor issues were found in the survey.  I went ahead anyway knowing there were extra repairs needed.

The process:-

You put in an initial verbal offer and if accepted you organise a surveyor to check the building out, and get a lawyer's office to check out the paperwork at the town hall.

You can try to adjust your offer after a bad survey - but I found this was not accepted if the property has interest from other people.

Then you make a legally binding offer via your lawyer and detail the dates for purchase.

You are required to deposit 10% of the price, which you lose if you pull out.

You need to make the full funds available to the notary a few days before the purchase date.

I gave my lawyer Power of Attorney for the process as Covid travel restrictions were in place preventing me from easily going to the various document signings.

I hope this helps

Ian

Yes, Ian, once again, a very helpful response.

To make prospective Purchasers aware of as many eventualities as possible they should be aware that, in addition to compliance with Portuguese estate tax law, on the death of a Portuguese foreign property owner, they will probably have to comply with their own home-country's estate laws.

Thank you again.

Jazz

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